Downloaded and playing. First impression is that is much better balanced and that arms-oil are important.

One comment about Italy's starting military forces.

In 1933 Italy had one of the most advanced and large aviations. This cannot be modeled as 10 fighters. France has 13 and 4 bombers... Looking at the other nations I guess a few (3-6) bombers should be added. At least 1 fighter and 1 bomber should be added in Libia and Abissinia. Airfields were everywere...

I have 5 Inf 2 against 5 militia in etiopia. It's taking forever to beat them (till now 8 turns...). Inf are at 100% arms.

Did you change anything in the combat?

Very minor bug found.

In combat if there is a loss the battle unit counter doesn't decrease. It gets updated 1 turn later. Possibly it did happen because the mini-window was already open.

Army and oil idle consumption is still too high.

One of my cavalry unit went from 60% to 40% in one turn and down to 20% on the next one without fighting and I have a reserve of 100+ arms. Not reasonalble.

Now joined a battle and went up to 100% !!!

Getting crazy ...

Biplane fighters have 1 oil consumption idle or active. 10 fighters mean 10 oil/turn doing nothing.

It's meaningless.

It would be ok if the Icon for Automatic Resuply / Rearm would toggle it on or off but it does not influence Idle Consumption.

Dificulty levels how are they exactly ? Diff 1 is that all Nations exept yours have 1 IPU in every City and Capitals have 5-10. As Axis Power all your Future Allies ( Japan / Italy ) have their normal IPUs. As Russia only You and Puppet States. it seems a little bit odd that IPU 20 Cities only have the same IPU amount as IPU 5 Cities = 1 IPU. I would recomand to change it so that Diff 1 schould mean that all IPUs are devided through 5 and on diff 5 they should be normal. In diff 10 they should be multiplied with 5. It would make the AI not worthless on diff 1 and very powerfull on diff 10.

The diif Level is Bugged All Nations with the same Idiology as you share the same Difficulty Level as you.

Pff... now the consumption is worse than the previous...

ariete said

Army and oil idle consumption is still too high.

One of my cavalry unit went from 60% to 40% in one turn and down to 20% on the next one without fighting and I have a reserve of 100+ arms. Not reasonalble.

Now joined a battle and went up to 100% !!!

Can you describe the situation a little more? If you have units in supply and you have arms in your stockpile they should resupply during end of turn processing.

It was conquering territories (zipping through undefended ethiopia) so resupply was at 0% or so (red) as is when you get a new region.

Another nonsense.

I usually have my sub sit silent to watch naval regions.

With the new system my deployed static, idle subs go to 0 arms and 0 gas (right now 11/40). It is unreal to think that a deployed sub consumes arms without beeing engaged in a fight.

The idea is good but must be refined.

Take out idle, too difficult to make it work.

All Nations with the same Idiology as you share the same Difficulty Level as you.

Not exactly, but close. Anyway, this is not a bug.

OK, it's broken.

I'm producing 40 oils but can't get above 0 reserves because I have 10 planes and 20 ships. Every unit is at idle.

How can I dare to think about a war where I would at least triple my consumption? No oil in the market either.

Dave, take away idle consumption and let's try again it. Please... Just fix this in 10 minutes and update the beta.

Its clearly a Bug because all Nations with your Idiology have normal IPUs and normal Produktion but the other Idiologie Nations have either 1 IPU for diff 1 or get a 75% Produktion start Bonus for diff 10 so its clearly a BUG. it does not have anithing to do with Idiology Victory because i tried it with Nation Victory and its the same.

I agree it's not.

If you go for victory with ideology then it's correct that all your party shares benefit or handicap.

Will the proper fleshed out patch be released this week or is this it?

Biplane fighter range: can't even go from veneto to slavoljia... :-(

JTL said

Its clearly a Bug because all Nations with your Idiology have normal IPUs and normal Produktion but the other Idiologie Nations have either 1 IPU for diff 1 or get a 75% Produktion start Bonus for diff 10 so its clearly a BUG. it does not have anithing to do with Idiology Victory because i tried it with Nation Victory and its the same.

Dave is it true? Does all nations who with our ideology have handicap on 10 difficulty level ?

In the alliance mode would be interesting to know the mechanist since it's not preset :-)

I see I' cluttering this post... sorry.

what is this you are talking about the difficulty? there is nothing about it in the release notes, or did i overlook it?

Knopfdruckoffz said

what is this you are talking about the difficulty? there is nothing about it in the release notes, or did i overlook it?

I don't know. I am only wondering that have an AI nations which are sharing players ideology, handicap ?

erdem said

JTL said

Its clearly a Bug because all Nations with your Idiology have normal IPUs and normal Produktion but the other Idiologie Nations have either 1 IPU for diff 1 or get a 75% Produktion start Bonus for diff 10 so its clearly a BUG. it does not have anithing to do with Idiology Victory because i tried it with Nation Victory and its the same.

Dave is it true? Does all nations who with our ideology have handicap on 10 difficulty level ?

It is not in the manual, but I believe Dave or Chris mentioned this in response to a question sometime around the release of patch 1.25 or 1.26 that allied nations are handicapped at higher difficulty levels.

But why when they only share the Same Idiology ? No Alliance not Puppet States and with Nation Victory. I try now Alliance Victory but i suspect that it will be any different.

All victory Conditions are the Same no change there.

BTW I dont really get the Reason behind it. Would it note make All Nations staying beside you total worthless on Diff 10 ? You will be the only Nation Fighting and the others would be only for distraction. That would make it far harder for an Alliance Player than for Axis and Comintern would be clear the Winner in it. ;)

JTL said

But why when they only share the Same Idiology ? No Alliance not Puppet States and with Nation Victory. I try now Alliance Victory but i suspect that it will be any different.

All victory Conditions are the Same no change there.

BTW I dont really get the Reason behind it. Would it note make All Nations staying beside you total worthless on Diff 10 ? You will be the only Nation Fighting and the others would be only for distraction. That would make it far harder for an Alliance Player than for Axis and Comintern would be clear the Winner in it. ;)

I agree. I think national victory conditions should not use this handicap system.

In the beginning on scenario countries starting IPU is not stabil. ( difficulty 10) When I select USA USSR and germany have 600 IPU me and UK only 400- 450 IPU. BUt if I select Germany ı have only 350 IPU but USA and UK have 800 - 900 IPU. Also My ideology countries have lower IPU. I think it is a bug. ( I play only nation victory mode )

i noticed that esp. Japan and Italy cant handle the idle consumption.

Also i had China taking over the Asian part of USSR early in the game.

as a player the changes are good i think, esp. the nerf of infantry units which makes tanks much more valuable. but the AI still needs some improvements!

i also dont understand that the last changes between the two 1.28 updates was only to increase the starting resources, and lowering the requirements for munitions plant. was that all to counter all the problems with idle consumption? Italy and Japan are not playing any role in the WWII theater now.

superstacks seem to be gone, but just because the AI is not able to produce a decent amount of units.

i have seen a huge US superstack in Africa to counter the rebelling french colonies. if this superstack would have been send to french mainland instead, i would have faced serious problems. so i think the AI still fails in doing the most simple decisions.

beside that, the micromanagement of naval units kills a lot of fun with the game.

Knopfdruckoffz said

i noticed that esp. Japan and Italy cant handle the idle consumption.

Also i had China taking over the Asian part of USSR early in the game.

as a player the changes are good i think, esp. the nerf of infantry units which makes tanks much more valuable. but the AI still needs some improvements!

i also dont understand that the last changes between the two 1.28 updates was only to increase the starting resources, and lowering the requirements for munitions plant. was that all to counter all the problems with idle consumption? Italy and Japan are not playing any role in the WWII theater now.

superstacks seem to be gone, but just because the AI is not able to produce a decent amount of units.

i have seen a huge US superstack in Africa to counter the rebelling french colonies. if this superstack would have been send to french mainland instead, i would have faced serious problems. so i think the AI still fails in doing the most simple decisions.

beside that, the micromanagement of naval units kills a lot of fun with the game.

Can you expand on the comment about micromanagement of the naval units?

The recent changes to 1.28 represent considerable improvement in fuel and arms consumption, but further changes are still needed. Also, so far the AI still seems unable to cope with the new features of 1.28.
Here are some specific comments:

--Arms consumption while units are inactive is still too high, especially for infantry units. While I agree that training is necessary and some arms (plus fuel for motorized units) would be expended in such training, relatively little training for infantry units would actually involve “live fire”.

--Results for combat against units with little or no arms (or against militia units) are a bit more realistic, but such units still hold out much longer than is realistic, especially if the attacking units are relatively well supplied with arms. In such situations, outgunned units (even those with high morale) would typically surrender soon after exhausting their ammo. Currently, it seems that such units continue to fight until their unit health points are exhausted, which I assume means they have been annihilated.

about the micromanagement of naval units, its all about checking if naval units around the world running out of fuel, this requires much more in head calculating then before. naval units now run out of fuel much faster, and maybe get stuck in remote areas. i.e. doing blockades means to take care a lot of every unit involved. maybe its just because its new, i have still have to get used to it. So maybe there is not so much to worry on the players side. BUT the AI fails here too, nearly all AI naval units are paddling with 0 oil.

Another point again about superstacks/arms supply. There was a US superstack within West Africa, it was pretty big, about 200 units. I managed to hunt it down with a smaller force, but only because the stack was low on arms!

There is only one nation that manages to survive the idle consumption changes for some time, and that is the US. I was testing with Germany, and every other nation was a piece of cake. If i look now at the US mainland (turn 525, diff 5) i see many units lacking supplies (arms and oil) here too, so an invasion without any challenge is no problem. I just took over Italy and Japan within 3-5 turns.

also check http://making-history.com/forum/thread/458163/1 please!

I Play as Spain and Allied with the GB Alliance ( USA was in it too ) to get a Free pass on Conquering South America. At that Time Germany and Russia was in War with GB Alliance and the Fusioned next Turn because of Me joining the Allies.

The Super Stack prob never happened to me but The AI now tend to Sacrifice most of their Troops without reason. France / Netherlands and Belgium Produce a lot of Troops but the send them imidiately to Attack the Germans where they 100% Die in Vain.

Italy and Japan do Nothing even in 1941.

BTW the Rediness / Moral when you turn it to minimun and it reaches 0% and Turn it ON then it needs 100 Turns do get to 100%. Every Turn only 1%.

We need a Button to Turn ON / OFF Weapon and Oil Supply. To make Storraging it easier for War Times. In the Moment i go arround it with my Navy letting them stay out of Port until I really need them.

BTW it seems so that Planes do a lot more Damage to Navy than to Army. Strategic Bombers twice ~ 17 / 34. It really does not make much sense or am i wrong ?

ok guys sounds stupid but.. I do auto update but cant get 1.28 pre-release my version still 1.27. Anyone who know what problem do i have, let me know ...

Thanks

go into Options and turn on "Participating in Beta".

is it on steam ? or in game.. if you mean in game i do that pre-release uppdate check but nothing downloaded..

By the way i dont have steam game.. I do have from Original CD it do all game updates till 1.27

ok i did find problem by my self..

Thank you... As i said it was stupid mistake...

zydfhm (nice name) please explain for others that could also have a momentary lapse of reason ;-)

The lowering Production Time for All Recurce Gathering Buildings is a good thing but still not enough. Lowering Search Time would help too.

Mostly all Nations start with far to low IPUs and Recurce Gathering as they actually Need to. Especially Japan / Italy for Mayor Powers. They need ~ 1/3 or 1/2 of their IPUs to produce enough Weapons for Maintenance and thats far to Much for Peace Time. The only good thing for them not able to Build enough Units for War is that they stay out of critical Dept longer than USA / GB / UDSSR.

An Option for toggling On / Off Weapon and Arms supply would greately enhance the abbility to Build Up befor going to War. Because as it is now the Consumption feels like as if the Nations are constantly in War and never in Peace.

The Player and AI need a few Options / Mechanics in helping with Fleet Management. Like Patroling ( starting in Port and ending in Port with repeating it like with Planes ). Subs should have the Option to attack automatically every Oponent be Turned on while Moving / Patroling. That would really help Players and AI to secure the surrounding Waters of your Nation.

I'm currently giving the new balance a try even if it needs another adjustment.

As usual I start with Italy and got ethiopia slower than usual but early enough.

Resources availability is terrible for Italy and the first 100 or so turns are strictly economical.

Afterward I trow all my armies against Jugoslavia that had much needed coal and iron resources. Not an easy fight but they were low in army reserves and had split east-west forces so I was able to battle them with huge advantages. Even so it was a long match.

Then I consolidated my economy building arms and selling on the market. I was happy economically but oil is too much important now. I had Romania at the borders with a lot of oil fields underdeveloped (why my dear AI?) and started to plan for an invasion. I did fear USSR taking Romania because they had a huge military (150 Inf + 85 Arm + 80 Artill + ... vs my 36 Inf + 8 Artill).

Got some 50 IPU cities to build heavy tanks and built a 25 tanks strong attack force in a way I had not to pay arms and oil while building (secret ingradient of the sauce). This time I went through quickly.

That's all for now and I'm at turn 300 about playing for alliance win.

Some comments:

1) there is very little action (combats) around the world

2) germany attacked austria but couldn't win, they are stalled

3) resouces are scarce but not too much.

4) Arms requirements when not in combat are way too high. Same for Oil. It's not correct also that after one fight all units are low at arms.

5) AI still needs to understand latest changes.

6) no megastacks as well as no mega-armies. UK got 400 inf vs 1500 inf as usual. China 250 inf. Only USSR build a relevant number of tanks. UK, USSR, ... send ships around the world with no clear goal while in peace. I keep mine in ports.

7) I could enjoy the game in a different way but please fix army-oil requirements or will become a game of economics with few action.

8) AI tuning needed.

It would be nice to add oil and army consumption in the summary window for each unit-army. Both idle and active.

What means active? Moving or actually fighting?

All Infs / Planes / mostly all Ships / Subs and most Tanks have only 1 Oil / Weapon Idle Consuption. Only the Later = Advanced versions have 2.

Active means Fighting and all have min 2+ Consumption. The advanced have mostly 4-5. It can mean Moving too but i never looked for it though.

It would be Really Good to actually See the Numbers of + and - for all Recurces like the One in the Forum

[ From Knopfdruckoffz ]

( http://making-history.com/forum/thread/458163/1 )

thanks JTL

Hopefully Dave can confirm-change the idle-active interpretation.

So the Next Patch for v1.28 ( Patch 2 ) will hopfully focus on Balancing the Recurces and Updating the AI and Fixing the Difficulties.

Balancing the Resurces with Idle Consumtion would make it easier for AI to handle it and with Fixing the Difficulties would make us able to Play again on diff 10. Updating the AI would greatly enhance the Fun in Gaming.

BTW Please add Knopfies UI changes and a Patroll Option for all Navies with an automatic Attack Button for Subs.

Subs can attack automatically, select your sub & right click on the sea zone it's in, then select Attack Hostile Units In it's sea zone.

For the UI I find annoying that everytime I open a city or region window, I have to switch to a tab. Next open I have to do that again because the UI has no memory of my preference. Same for regions-cities where I order them by value at least 1000 times per game...

@Roy64 thats not what I meant. Subs cant Attack and Move at the same Time like Ships can so when a Patroll option would be integrated than such an Option would be Needed for Subs.

When will this update be available for multiplayer?