AlfredBNJ said
TehBoss said
That's a movie :P
The 82nd WAS in Market Garden get your facts right, that's just a disgrace to the paratroopers in the 82nd that actually Fought in the Netherlands in 1944.
Quote from wikipedia:
"Grave proved to be well defended and German forces continued to press on the 82nd deployed on the Groesbeek heights to the east of Nijmegen. The 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment defended against German attacks in Horst, Grafwegen and Riethorst. Early in the day, German counterattacks seized one of the Allied landing zones where the Second Lift was scheduled to arrive at 13:00. The 508th Parachute Infantry Regiment attacked at 13:10 and cleared the LZ by 14:00, capturing 16 German flak pieces and 149 prisoners. Delayed by weather in Britain, the Second Lift did not arrive until 15:30. This lift brought in elements of the 319th and 320th Glider Field Artillery battalions, the 456th Parachute Field Artillery battalion and medical support elements. Twenty minutes later, 135 B-24 bombers dropped supplies from low level (100'), 80% of which was recovered."
Dont believe everything that's a movie. Saying the 82nd Airborne didnt participate is idiotic :P
Even in Band of Brothers I believe you see men with the 82nd patch.
In the 2nd episode, "Day of Days" just after the airborne drops in the night prior to the D-Day landings, the first troops Winters encounters are from the 82nd.
Product Manager
Chris said
AlfredBNJ said
TehBoss said
That's a movie :P
The 82nd WAS in Market Garden get your facts right, that's just a disgrace to the paratroopers in the 82nd that actually Fought in the Netherlands in 1944.
Quote from wikipedia:
"Grave proved to be well defended and German forces continued to press on the 82nd deployed on the Groesbeek heights to the east of Nijmegen. The 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment defended against German attacks in Horst, Grafwegen and Riethorst. Early in the day, German counterattacks seized one of the Allied landing zones where the Second Lift was scheduled to arrive at 13:00. The 508th Parachute Infantry Regiment attacked at 13:10 and cleared the LZ by 14:00, capturing 16 German flak pieces and 149 prisoners. Delayed by weather in Britain, the Second Lift did not arrive until 15:30. This lift brought in elements of the 319th and 320th Glider Field Artillery battalions, the 456th Parachute Field Artillery battalion and medical support elements. Twenty minutes later, 135 B-24 bombers dropped supplies from low level (100'), 80% of which was recovered."
Dont believe everything that's a movie. Saying the 82nd Airborne didnt participate is idiotic :P
Even in Band of Brothers I believe you see men with the 82nd patch.
In the 2nd episode, "Day of Days" just after the airborne drops in the night prior to the D-Day landings, the first troops Winters encounters are from the 82nd.
Thanks Brosif.
Make This Pledge:
War is peace.
Slavery is freedom.
Ignorance is strength.
First of all, LOL, I am quoting a banned member!
Makarov said
82nd never were in market garden 101st watch BOB
The 82nd Airborne were in Neijmegen, 1st were in Arnheim and 101st were in Eindhoven!
"Idea becomes real" - Nordic Battle Groups motto
"A mans success isn't based on how high he can reach at the top ... only how high he bounces up when he have hit the bottom" - General G.S Patton
- thegeniusmartin
- location: Sweden
- joined: Aug 13, 2009
- posts: 987
MajorLufbery said
I really cant say that Montgomery was underrated. I'm sorry, I just cant. So, how about that operation market garden eh??
Op. Market garden was largely the plan of Frederick Browning.
Monty wasnt a very good General at the end. He made bif mistakes and he did not like any other of the generals! He was in fact a bit rascistic, in his diary he write a lot of stuff. And he hated almost all other generals. So after WW II he got ... KICKED!!!
"Idea becomes real" - Nordic Battle Groups motto
"A mans success isn't based on how high he can reach at the top ... only how high he bounces up when he have hit the bottom" - General G.S Patton
- thegeniusmartin
- location: Sweden
- joined: Aug 13, 2009
- posts: 987
thegeniusmartin said
Monty wasnt a very good General at the end. He made bif mistakes and he did not like any other of the generals! He was in fact a bit rascistic, in his diary he write a lot of stuff. And he hated almost all other generals. So after WW II he got ... KICKED!!!
I've got a pretty good idea that the feeling was mutual.
"Mors ultima linea rerum est mortalis."
- MajorLufbery
- MHII, MH GOLD
- location: France
- joined: Aug 12, 2009
- posts: 1173
Order of battle for O.M.G.
The American 82nd airborne landed at Nijmagen and Grave.
The American 101st landed at Uden, St. Oedenrode, and Zon.
The British 1st Airborne landed at Arnhem.
The British XXX (Thirty) Corps advanced along Highway 69 to link-together the drop zones.
The British XII (Twelve) Corps advanced along the left flank of Highway 69.
The British VIII (Eight) Corps advanced along the right flank of Highway 69.
The British XXI Army Group held northern Belgium.
The German Army Group B held the left flank.
The German II (Two) SS Panzerkorps held the center.
The German IX (Nine) Panzerdivision held the right flank.
The German I (One) Fallschirmjager Armee held the forward right flank.
The German X (Ten) SS Panzerdivision held Arnhem.
Ooh, those words brings up memorys!
"Idea becomes real" - Nordic Battle Groups motto
"A mans success isn't based on how high he can reach at the top ... only how high he bounces up when he have hit the bottom" - General G.S Patton
- thegeniusmartin
- location: Sweden
- joined: Aug 13, 2009
- posts: 987
thegeniusmartin said
Ooh, those words brings up memorys!
hehe, same, although I'm thinking of Close Combat: A Bridge Too Far, I highly doubt you are too...
"I am not your son"
~JPS
- cavetroll1304
- MHII, MH GOLD
- location: United States
- joined: Aug 10, 2009
- posts: 1260
thegeniusmartin said
Monty wasnt a very good General at the end. He made bif mistakes and he did not like any other of the generals! He was in fact a bit rascistic, in his diary he write a lot of stuff. And he hated almost all other generals. So after WW II he got ... KICKED!!!
Nonsense! Montgomery was a good Field Marshal, not the best but certainly good and is often underrated and misunderstood. Whereas Patton and Rommel are almost always overrated.
Montgomery was an excellent organiser and trainer of troops. He stressed physical fitness and even his Staff Officers were physically fit. He regularly visited his troops at the front and genuinely cared about them.
First and foremost he was a professional soldier and devoted his life to the study of war. He may not have looked like a General but he was authoritative and competent. Montgomery was not intimidated by anyone and he was brutally honest, often offending others in the process. However, his honesty was an important quality. He gave confidence to his troops.
"The bad old days are over," he said, "a new era has dawned." Issuing perhaps his most famous order, Montgomery threw down the gauntlet by ordering all previous plans for retreat to be burned. "We will fight the enemy where we now stand; there will be no withdrawal and no surrender. If we cannot stay here alive, then let us stay here dead!"
The British Army of the inter-war years was under-funded and underdeveloped. It was Monty that took the British forces in North Africa and turned them into a lethal force. He was able to combine doctrine, training, airpower, armour and artillery into one functional battle winning weapon. Not only that, he also understood the limits of the British Army and he was able to work successfully within those limits.
Present opinion on Montgomery was started by the writings of his rivals due to jealousy and a number of other factors. Hollywood and TV have picked this rubbish up and ran with it. When I first saw that scene in Saving Private Ryan where Monty was criticised I wanted to punch the writers in the face. Yes, really. For it is people like that who continue to further this incorrect view on the Field Marshall and TV and film are where people seem to get their views on him.
For anyone interested in gaining a more correct view on Montgomery I suggest this article by the interesting US historian Carlo D'Este.
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/monty-world-war-iis-most-misunderstood-general.htm
That is where I have gleaned most of my information from.
Richard Overy's excellent work Why the Allies Won also provides a far more accurate picture of Montgomery; especially in Normandy.
PS: There's some quote about Patton having advanced x amount of miles when in fact Montgomery advanced a far greater distance but it's 1AM and I am too tired to find it.
At Normandie he claimed that it was his plan to "delay" the Germans at Caen! That wasnt true, and in the countr attack in Ardennerna he said that it was he who deafeted the Germans. Thats not true either, it was the yanks and Patton who manage to deafeted the jerrys!
"Idea becomes real" - Nordic Battle Groups motto
"A mans success isn't based on how high he can reach at the top ... only how high he bounces up when he have hit the bottom" - General G.S Patton
- thegeniusmartin
- location: Sweden
- joined: Aug 13, 2009
- posts: 987
TGM, for coming from a nation whose generals didn't do anything in the war, you sure do like to criticize those that did.
Did you even read the article?
"I am not your son"
~JPS
- cavetroll1304
- MHII, MH GOLD
- location: United States
- joined: Aug 10, 2009
- posts: 1260
thegeniusmartin said
At Normandie he claimed that it was his plan to "delay" the Germans at Caen! That wasnt true,
That is correct. I read that too, so I agree. It was a weird General, made some questionable decisions.
About the thing of him being rascist I cannot recall or believe, although I know he got kicked after the war, but more likely he did not have enough friends in the military to save his ass combined with some disaproved actions during the war.
'If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much!'
- Dutchie
- location: Netherlands
- joined: Aug 10, 2009
- posts: 400
Dutchie said
About the thing of him being rascist I cannot recall or believe, although I know he got kicked after the war, but more likely he did not have enough friends in the military to save his ass combined with some disaproved actions during the war.
He was hated by just about everyone because he was so blunt, seriously, did no one read the article?
"I am not your son"
~JPS
- cavetroll1304
- MHII, MH GOLD
- location: United States
- joined: Aug 10, 2009
- posts: 1260
In the 1940s practically everyone was a racist of some kind. Its kind of a ridiculous argument to say general X was a bad general as he was a racist as that argument probably applied to every general in the entire war.
- Carl
- location: United States
- joined: Aug 10, 2009
- posts: 241
And I seriously doubt racism figured into a general's ability to command.
"I am not your son"
~JPS
- cavetroll1304
- MHII, MH GOLD
- location: United States
- joined: Aug 10, 2009
- posts: 1260
-snafu- said
thegeniusmartin said
Monty wasnt a very good General at the end. He made bif mistakes and he did not like any other of the generals! He was in fact a bit rascistic, in his diary he write a lot of stuff. And he hated almost all other generals. So after WW II he got ... KICKED!!!
Nonsense! Montgomery was a good Field Marshal, not the best but certainly good and is often underrated and misunderstood. Whereas Patton and Rommel are almost always overrated.
Montgomery was an excellent organiser and trainer of troops. He stressed physical fitness and even his Staff Officers were physically fit. He regularly visited his troops at the front and genuinely cared about them.
First and foremost he was a professional soldier and devoted his life to the study of war. He may not have looked like a General but he was authoritative and competent. Montgomery was not intimidated by anyone and he was brutally honest, often offending others in the process. However, his honesty was an important quality. He gave confidence to his troops.
"The bad old days are over," he said, "a new era has dawned." Issuing perhaps his most famous order, Montgomery threw down the gauntlet by ordering all previous plans for retreat to be burned. "We will fight the enemy where we now stand; there will be no withdrawal and no surrender. If we cannot stay here alive, then let us stay here dead!"
The British Army of the inter-war years was under-funded and underdeveloped. It was Monty that took the British forces in North Africa and turned them into a lethal force. He was able to combine doctrine, training, airpower, armour and artillery into one functional battle winning weapon. Not only that, he also understood the limits of the British Army and he was able to work successfully within those limits.
Present opinion on Montgomery was started by the writings of his rivals due to jealousy and a number of other factors. Hollywood and TV have picked this rubbish up and ran with it. When I first saw that scene in Saving Private Ryan where Monty was criticised I wanted to punch the writers in the face. Yes, really. For it is people like that who continue to further this incorrect view on the Field Marshall and TV and film are where people seem to get their views on him.
You got to be kidding me?
Monty had some wiered stuff going on in his head! He never showed good teamwork or that he could work with the Americans.
On the other way, he was an exelent leader and in Africa he was twice as meaningful and important and good as Patton was.
About Rommel ,who I have studding in over 4 years, he never had the most reacourses or men power. He had to work with the things that he had.
Patton and Monty had much more troops, tanks and fuel, Rommel had maybe in the battle of Tunis one third of the tanks that the Allied ad. One fourth of the allied troops!
And he always in his attacks tooked the enemy by supprise and won always! When he lost initiativ and to many troops the battle was off course lost.
In France, Rommel showed good leader ship, just as patton and Monty did, but almost no passion that he had in Africa.
He knewed that the war was lost, that Hitler was a "bit" mad and that the Allies had an OVERWHELING air forces.
Patton and Monty: Monty who act from Normandie had lost almost all trust in the Alllied stab. He didnt manage to take the city Cean, that layed just a couple of km from them. While the western front in Normandie had started to move, Monty sended his panser troops to their death, SS units destroyed many times all armored forces in one attack!
Patton who act more from the battle of the Falaise gap, had all the troops, tanks, support and fuel he needed. Endless of resources to his need. A thin that almost no German general had.
And a small plus for Rommel but also von Kluge, is that both of em kind of supported the coup against Hitler. Off course non of em wanted to see hin dead, but Rommel was so aliked by the German people that he were asked by the conspiracys if he wanted to be the next "Fuhrer". He turned down and sad that if Hitler would sign a formular of leaving the post as Fuhrer then Rommel could take Keitels post!
"Idea becomes real" - Nordic Battle Groups motto
"A mans success isn't based on how high he can reach at the top ... only how high he bounces up when he have hit the bottom" - General G.S Patton
- thegeniusmartin
- location: Sweden
- joined: Aug 13, 2009
- posts: 987
cavetroll1304 said
TGM, for coming from a nation whose generals didn't do anything in the war, you sure do like to criticize those that did.
Did you even read the article?
Does it really matter if my grandfathers Generals president didnt want to declare war against the most Powerful nation i central Europe?
At 1940-1943 it was very smart, in 1943 we broke the military acces treaty and I just wish that we had tried to libberate Norway in 1944!
I am just as afected of the actions of an old man in 1940s as you were by the dead of Olof Palme here in Sweden in 1980s!!!!!!!
"Idea becomes real" - Nordic Battle Groups motto
"A mans success isn't based on how high he can reach at the top ... only how high he bounces up when he have hit the bottom" - General G.S Patton
- thegeniusmartin
- location: Sweden
- joined: Aug 13, 2009
- posts: 987
thegeniusmartin said
cavetroll1304 said
TGM, for coming from a nation whose generals didn't do anything in the war, you sure do like to criticize those that did.
Did you even read the article?
At 1940-1943 it was very smart, in 1943 we broke the military acces treaty and I just wish that we had tried to libberate Norway in 1944!
I am just as afected of the actions of an old man in 1940s as you were by the dead of Olof Palme here in Sweden in 1980s!!!!!!!
A. ooo, living it large are we? Sweden was so BA breaking that treaty, meanwhile the allies were actually fighting a real war against the Axis.
B. I don't seem to be affected at all because I've never heard of it.
But you miss my main point, read the article then try to criticize a man who actually did something against one of the greatest evils to rise up during the 20th century.
"I am not your son"
~JPS
- cavetroll1304
- MHII, MH GOLD
- location: United States
- joined: Aug 10, 2009
- posts: 1260
