DISCUSSIONS
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i know this really isn't on topic to the mod but i just wanna say that even though Making History is a great game, something like the winter war where a country like Finland can prevent an invasion by the Soviet Army, and win at least a military if not political victory.
- Sword_Beach
- location: Unknown
- joined: Sep 06, 2009
- posts: 125
- It was an aftershock of the finnish revolution in the 1918, when the Finnish White forces(supported by Germany) executed about 10 000 Communists.
I cannot see the point why you are referring to the Finnish Civil War. Maybe it proved the Soviet Union that Germany could use Finland as a base of an attack to Russia (where your second point is correct). But, during the Winter War the former Reds who had been defeated in the Civil War united to fight for the fatherland against a common enemy. They did not see the Soviets as liberators, conversely, as invaders. Of course I'm generalising here.
Could be you're right here. I need to study the topic more deeply before i can say anymore about this.
- An attempt from the USSR to secure Leningrad (today St. Petersburg), because Leningrad was very close to the finnish border. USSR offered Finland a much greater area in Karelia, in exchange for the borderlands of Leningrad. Unfortunately, the Fins had already chosen their side.
The territories that the USSR offered Finland in change had already voluntarily joined Finland in the late 1910s, but the Soviets took them back. Now, they were larger in area, but less significant. The territories demanded by the Soviet Union included the most important defensive line, the Mannerheim Line, and the Finnish government couldn't trust that the war would be avoided with only giving the USSR that lifeline. Also, the Finns didn't want a Soviet military base just 100 km from Helsinki, in Hanko.
What is the side Finland had already chosen you were referring to?
To be franc, i haven't spent too many hours reading about this topic, but i'd like to try discuss based on what i know.
I see the finnish point of view, not wanting a soviet military base in Hanko for 15 years. But on the other side, the USSR was preparing for war, they were expecting an invasion from Nazi Germany, and perhaps more countries as well. (USSR wasn't popular in the opinions of the capitalist military powers of the world.). They feared an invasion, and like you said, they feared an invasion staged from Finland. And seeing Finlands orientation towards Germany aswell as the upbuilding of fascist movements in Finland (Patriotic People's Movement) must have given them reason to take precautions.
When it comes to the Finland volunteers (who came from Norway and Sweden), many of them were fascists, and the majority of the norwegians who fought in Finland in 1939, joined the SS when Germany invaded Norway.
By the way, do you have any good sources on the Winter War?=)
- DronaldDuck
- location: Unknown
- joined: Dec 08, 2009
- posts: 5
AlfredBNJ said
Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Finland very close to the Allies as well before USSR joined up with them? After all Finland was willing to allow British troops in Lapland to move in and take over Swedish refineries because of the mass amounts of metals being exported to Germany?
It was pretty close. Especially the relations with France, they had some military cooperation with them. I don't know about Finland allowing this, but the initial Allied plans for support in the Winter War were such that they required Norway and Sweden to give military access, to let the Allied troops to Finland via the port of Narvik and right through the Swedish iron ore fields.
Winter War 70 years
30 November 1939 - 13 March 1940
- SL
- location: Finland
- joined: Oct 14, 2009
- posts: 200
DronaldDuck, you have some good points. But as I said earlier, Finland had pretty close cooperation with the Allies and distrusted Nazi Germany. As a democratic country it sought to primarily align itself with the democratic nations, but as the Allies couldn't support Finland after the Winter War because of the relationship between the UK and the USSR, Germany ended up as the only possibility. Now, that is just one view of it, and it is still sometimes even in modern days publicly questioned whether the co-belligerence with Germany was their own choice. Everyone should understand why this is a difficult topic.
But yes, the Patriotic People's Movement, established after the unsuccessful Mantsala Rebellion by the extreme right wing Lapua movement, was pretty popular. However the government took multiple actions in order to limit the party, with the intention of banning it. The party got at most 14 seats out of 200 in the parliament, so they didn't have so much power. But I'm not really sure about the effect of the existence of this party to the foreign relations.
For sources I found firstly MANY good Finnish sites (but I bet you are not going to learn the language for that purpose) so you can find English information online, for example this web newspaper has some good articles: (http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Hundreds+of+child+soldiers+fought+in+Winter+War/1135251330631)[http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Hundreds+of+child+soldiers+fought+in+Winter+War/1135251330631]. Scroll down for more. Pictures can be found (here)[http://www.sodatkuvina.cjb.net/TalvisotaMain.htm].
Winter War 70 years
30 November 1939 - 13 March 1940
- SL
- location: Finland
- joined: Oct 14, 2009
- posts: 200
Three of my grandfathers fought in the winter war and one died and one were in the GUlag for 6 years And the third fought during the war on allied side, from the finland to d-day to germany... I want to honor all the dead and those that survived, and to my grandfathers who stills buried in Finland
To all those who died in the bomb and to all my friends that were massacered the 22nd of July, I feel with you all and I give all their families my condolanses! Alt for Norge! Моя жизнь матери России!
- liank
- location: Norway
- joined: Aug 10, 2009
- posts: 171
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