Note changes/relabeling:
beast566 said
[Controlled use of fire]
Iron, steel, bronze, [Copper], tools, armour (Metalworking/Metallurgy)
Maps (Cartography)
[Electricity (controlled)] --> [Telegraph] --> Phones --> TV --> Computers
Guns (Chemistry)
extinction of the dodo ;) [don't forget Passenger Pigeons!]
"Until you know what is worth dying for, Life isn't worth living."
"Choose wisely"
- CaptainPatch
- MHII, MH
- location: United States
- joined: May 23, 2010
- posts: 1758
cavetroll1304 said
America was isolated at its founding, and the Brits were basically a democracy, they were as they are now. In the beginning you were ruled by Britain....
We still broke free and remain free today, never been conquered by a foreign power yet, and I pray that we never are.
Fortunately, Great Britain had bigger fish to fry (namely a VERY uppity France). The backing off and letting the Colonies go was a calculated risk. The thinking was: "Give them about a decade to squabble amongst themselves and they'll be asking us to take them back! " During that decade, even France was convinced that the US would fall apart if left on their own. (XYZ Affair --> Quasi War) The real problem for GB getting serious was that their timeline was fouled by the Napoleonic Wars 1795-1815. The US even tried to take advantage of GB's distraction by starting the War of 1812. American thinking was that GB would back down quickly to be able to once again turn its full attention on France. Instead, it turned into a three-year long war that the US could ill afford and very nearly ended with six New England States seceding from the budding nation. (Bet you didn't know that!) Instead, the war more or less ended as a stalemate -- only because GB was essentially fighting with one hand tied behind its back.
Pretty much throughout its history, the US's worst threat came from itself -- and that continues today. Know the fastest way to get practically politician to be HATED by nearly half the country? Have him loudly and publicly announce which of the two major parties he is affiliated with. We are a population of 309 million people, most of whom are seriously intolerant of a significant percentage of our own population. The poor and diminishing Middle Class hate the wealthy. The wealthy sneer at the poor. Despite a mountain of negative PR, the KKK and Neo-Nazis are still viable organizations. For many, being openly gay is a capital offense. Even many anti-abortionists that call abortion "murder" -- and therefore "wrong" -- feel that bombing an abortion clinic -- with people inside, is a Good Thing.
The US will most likely NOT be dragged down by another nation. They won't have to. We'll most likely do it to ourselves.
"Until you know what is worth dying for, Life isn't worth living."
"Choose wisely"
- CaptainPatch
- MHII, MH
- location: United States
- joined: May 23, 2010
- posts: 1758
While I disagree with much of the second paragraph I find myself agreeing 100% with your last sentence. I believe I will go the way of Rome at some point and weaken ourselves to the point where foreign invaders can basically stroll into our capital and force our leader to step down.
"I am not your son"
~JPS
- cavetroll1304
- MHII, MH GOLD
- location: United States
- joined: Aug 10, 2009
- posts: 1260
cavetroll1304 said
While I disagree with much of the second paragraph I find myself agreeing 100% with your last sentence. I believe I will go the way of Rome at some point and weaken ourselves to the point where foreign invaders can basically stroll into our capital and force our leader to step down.
More likely a VERY large bank will foreclose on the US mortgage because we couldn't make the payments.
Ever see the 1979 movie "Americathon"? Hilarious! John Ritter as President of a bankrupt US does a telethon to raise enough money to make the mortgage payment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OjCPZdgz_8
Every day, we keep getting closer to turning satire into Reality.
"Until you know what is worth dying for, Life isn't worth living."
"Choose wisely"
- CaptainPatch
- MHII, MH
- location: United States
- joined: May 23, 2010
- posts: 1758
cavetroll1304 said
While I disagree with much of the second paragraph I find myself agreeing 100% with your last sentence. I believe I will go the way of Rome at some point and weaken ourselves to the point where foreign invaders can basically stroll into our capital and force our leader to step down.
lol do you think that it will split into two aswell? It would be quite cool, who do you think would last longer?
In order to know how to use free will, we must first know how to fight for it.
Texas is once again talking LOUDLY about Secession. Several states are on the verge of total economic collapse. The lack of solid Federal intervention the the BP Gulf oil gusher which has already destroyed the Gulf fishing/shrimping industry and WILL muck up beaches from LA to the Florida Keys has seriously disenchanted the citizens of all those affected states.
I doubt that there would be a solid block of States that secede, as happened with the first ACW. More than likely, several States will initiate lawsuits to legally secede from the Union with the intent to simply go their own way. Which will prompt other States to start similar lawsuits on their own behalf. Once we get to 34 States (the number required for the States to force an Amendment to the Constitution) with such lawsuits in process, the US will have been effectively be dissolved by the Will of The People.
"Until you know what is worth dying for, Life isn't worth living."
"Choose wisely"
- CaptainPatch
- MHII, MH
- location: United States
- joined: May 23, 2010
- posts: 1758
America is going the way of all empires. That is the empire breaking up. The problem is that their empire is America. That's how I see it xD.
Your states seem similar to the countries making up The UK and everyone of them has independence or wants independence and very close to full independence, i.e. Scotland.
I tore a path screaming through wind and blood, I will it all, burning deep, in my, skull
Yeah but you have to admit Scotland are just being a bit greedy when they asked for more spending as the government already gives them more to spend than the revenue they earn, same goes for Wales.
In order to know how to use free will, we must first know how to fight for it.
ian241289 said Your states seem similar to the countries making up The UK and everyone of them has independence or wants independence and very close to full independence, i.e. Scotland.
Many/most people forget (or never properly understood) that that was the intended arrangement at the very beginning. It was the united States, working as a tightly allied union for the common good of all within the union. This is why the US Constitution is worded so heavily as to what the central Government is NOT supposed to be able to do. And why the first ten Amendments are known as the Bill of Rights: They are an enumeration of the Rights that the central Government was supposed to NOT abridge or restrict in any way.
For a Constitutional scholar, it's fairly obvious to see what the Founders intended for the newly founded nation to be. But all you need do is look around to see just how much the Government which was supposed to be the servant of We The People has evolved (devolved?) to become The People's exploiter.
Time for a Second American Revolution I think. (But you've most likely figured that out already.)
"Until you know what is worth dying for, Life isn't worth living."
"Choose wisely"
- CaptainPatch
- MHII, MH
- location: United States
- joined: May 23, 2010
- posts: 1758
Patch, no offense, but you need to quit your bickering over the States's rights and crap, I don't want to come here and read your political views on state rights or whatever. Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't want to read about how the Constitution tells that the central government does this and does that.
The Constitution applies to the STATES as well, not just the central government, while each states have their own laws, they are not allowed to take the basic rights of others, that is the the Bill of Rights. United States is a Federation, there isn't anything you can do about it, vote for the next government or whatever, but stop talking about revolution or succession from the 'Union' as the states will not do it.
Ian, Scotland does not have its independence, it is part of the state that makes the UK, UK controls Scotland as USA control.. Texas, while they run their own laws, guess who bring the hammer down-UK does. Wales does not have the same rights as the Scottish did, heck. I remember when the UK flooded a Welsh town and it was hell back in the 50s.
- Mouzie
- location: Israel
- joined: Sep 01, 2009
- posts: 199
No offense taken. It's REAL easy to be put off by someone else's strident rantings (especially if you disagree with whatever it is that he's ranting about). [Insert laughing smiley here.]
The Constitution and the Bill of Rights covers a LOT of ground (naturally). And, yes, there are several parts that dictate to the States those things that they MUST or MUST NOT do. But those comprise a very small part of all that documentation. The MUCH larger bulk deals with what the central government must or must not, can or can not do.
Of particular note is the 10th Amendment: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Basically, if it ain't spelled out here, it's up to the States to decide for themselves, or to the entire (voting) population of the US at large. That's a LOT of power that defers to the States.
Anyway, for a quick overview of the US Constitution, I recommend this link: http://www.usconstitution.net/constquick.html Otherwise, Wikipedia has a more comprehensive look at ALL of the original text with some lengthy discussion of each part and piece.
If anyone wants to know ALL of the details of what the Founders were debating during the formulation of the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights, James Madison published "Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787". The whole thick volume reads like the formal minutes of a meeting (which is pretty much what the notes are), but to the tenacious reader, they give the best insight to "What were they thinking when they wrote that?" [Sadly, hardly anyone is that tenacious. Nearly everyone works off of summaries that others hand to them (complete with bias inserted by the summary writers).] http://www.constitution.org/dfc/dfc_0525.htm
And I'll climb down from my soapbox now. Sorry for having been a distraction.
"Until you know what is worth dying for, Life isn't worth living."
"Choose wisely"
- CaptainPatch
- MHII, MH
- location: United States
- joined: May 23, 2010
- posts: 1758
beast566 said
Yeah but you have to admit Scotland are just being a bit greedy when they asked for more spending as the government already gives them more to spend than the revenue they earn, same goes for Wales.
They are just extremely patriotic now. Scotland already has different legal, educational and religious insitutions. Wales can't act as independent as Scotland but actually forced the Welsh language back into their school curriculum as it was dying out in favour of English. Now Welsh is making a big comeback to confuse English speaking people xD
I tore a path screaming through wind and blood, I will it all, burning deep, in my, skull
Mouzie said
Patch, no offense, but you need to quit your bickering over the States's rights and crap, I don't want to come here and read your political views on state rights or whatever. Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't want to read about how the Constitution tells that the central government does this and does that.
The Constitution applies to the STATES as well, not just the central government, while each states have their own laws, they are not allowed to take the basic rights of others, that is the the Bill of Rights. United States is a Federation, there isn't anything you can do about it, vote for the next government or whatever, but stop talking about revolution or succession from the 'Union' as the states will not do it.
Ian, Scotland does not have its independence, it is part of the state that makes the UK, UK controls Scotland as USA control.. Texas, while they run their own laws, guess who bring the hammer down-UK does. Wales does not have the same rights as the Scottish did, heck. I remember when the UK flooded a Welsh town and it was hell back in the 50s.
Scotland in 1999 had a majority rule for independence but the government of the UK made it void.
If you read what I said I mentioned that they want independence not that they have independence. I still realise they are under one government based in London. I never said once they were independent
Never knew the UK has overall control of Texas either xD
I tore a path screaming through wind and blood, I will it all, burning deep, in my, skull
ian241289 said They are just extremely patriotic now. Scotland already has different legal, educational and religious insitutions. Wales can't act as independent as Scotland but actually forced the Welsh language back into their school curriculum as it was dying out in favour of English. Now Welsh is making a big comeback to confuse English speaking people xD
About 15 years ago my wife and I took a vacation to the UK. Part of the trip was 3 days in Wales. So we're on our way to Harlech, and at one point we're boarding a compact little bus that seats about 20 people. As we're boarding we could hear two women conversing in English in the back of the bus. As the two of us climbed aboard and came in sight of the two local women, they could see that we were obviously tourists, and then resumed their conversation -- in Welsh!
My wife and I spent the trip wondering if the the change in conversational language was due to A) to keep their conversation private, B) to immerse us more into our Welsh surroundings, or C) both A and B. Regardless of why, it made the short bus trip rather entertaining as my wife and I were speculating about what the two women were saying to one another:
"Oh, Lord. More Yanks!"
"Seems like these days there's more of them here than there is of us!"
"Well, that's a good thing, a bad thing, and a good thing."
"How's that?"
"Well, it's a good thing, because when they're here, they leave a lot of their money behind."
"You're right, that is a good thing."
"And then it's a bad thing because, the money aside, we're being overrun by Yanks!"
""Aye, there is that. And what's the other good thing?"
"Well, it could be worse. Instead of Yanks, it could have been more of those bloody English!"
"Until you know what is worth dying for, Life isn't worth living."
"Choose wisely"
- CaptainPatch
- MHII, MH
- location: United States
- joined: May 23, 2010
- posts: 1758
CaptainPatch said
No offense taken. It's REAL easy to be put off by someone else's strident rantings (especially if you disagree with whatever it is that he's ranting about). [Insert laughing smiley here.]
The Constitution and the Bill of Rights covers a LOT of ground (naturally). And, yes, there are several parts that dictate to the States those things that they MUST or MUST NOT do. But those comprise a very small part of all that documentation. The MUCH larger bulk deals with what the central government must or must not, can or can not do.
Of particular note is the 10th Amendment: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Basically, if it ain't spelled out here, it's up to the States to decide for themselves, or to the entire (voting) population of the US at large. That's a LOT of power that defers to the States.
Anyway, for a quick overview of the US Constitution, I recommend this link: http://www.usconstitution.net/constquick.html Otherwise, Wikipedia has a more comprehensive look at ALL of the original text with some lengthy discussion of each part and piece.
If anyone wants to know ALL of the details of what the Founders were debating during the formulation of the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights, James Madison published "Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787". The whole thick volume reads like the formal minutes of a meeting (which is pretty much what the notes are), but to the tenacious reader, they give the best insight to "What were they thinking when they wrote that?" [Sadly, hardly anyone is that tenacious. Nearly everyone works off of summaries that others hand to them (complete with bias inserted by the summary writers).] http://www.constitution.org/dfc/dfc_0525.htm
And I'll climb down from my soapbox now. Sorry for having been a distraction.
Didn't mean any harm, just trying to be a friendly guy here, thank you for understanding and not having an E-fight with me. xD
- Mouzie
- location: Israel
- joined: Sep 01, 2009
- posts: 199
CaptainPatch said
ian241289 said They are just extremely patriotic now. Scotland already has different legal, educational and religious insitutions. Wales can't act as independent as Scotland but actually forced the Welsh language back into their school curriculum as it was dying out in favour of English. Now Welsh is making a big comeback to confuse English speaking people xD
About 15 years ago my wife and I took a vacation to the UK. Part of the trip was 3 days in Wales. So we're on our way to Harlech, and at one point we're boarding a compact little bus that seats about 20 people. As we're boarding we could hear two women conversing in English in the back of the bus. As the two of us climbed aboard and came in sight of the two local women, they could see that we were obviously tourists, and then resumed their conversation -- in Welsh!
My wife and I spent the trip wondering if the the change in conversational language was due to A) to keep their conversation private, B) to immerse us more into our Welsh surroundings, or C) both A and B. Regardless of why, it made the short bus trip rather entertaining as my wife and I were speculating about what the two women were saying to one another:
"Oh, Lord. More Yanks!"
"Seems like these days there's more of them here than there is of us!"
"Well, that's a good thing, a bad thing, and a good thing."
"How's that?"
"Well, it's a good thing, because when they're here, they leave a lot of their money behind."
"You're right, that is a good thing."
"And then it's a bad thing because, the money aside, we're being overrun by Yanks!"
""Aye, there is that. And what's the other good thing?"
"Well, it could be worse. Instead of Yanks, it could have been more of those bloody English!"
Haha good times :P. I was in Australia to visit my family there and they resorted to calling me a pommie if we was having a light hearted argument xD. Although my aunty there is British and she is married to a German there so none of them are true Australians in the sense they were born there. Strange having German conversation in Australia aha
I tore a path screaming through wind and blood, I will it all, burning deep, in my, skull
Dutchie said
What? I hear something about dutch..?!
Wassup?
Hahaha :P
cavetroll1304 said
...
TGM is Sweedish...
Yeah, but im a bit Dutch to,my dads grandfather and his family are from Holland. ;) "If You Aint Dutch ... You Aint Mutch"! Right Dutchie!? :)
MajorLufbery said
Denmark?
LOL, no! :)
"Idea becomes real" - Nordic Battle Groups motto
"A mans success isn't based on how high he can reach at the top ... only how high he bounces up when he have hit the bottom" - General G.S Patton
- thegeniusmartin
- location: Sweden
- joined: Aug 13, 2009
- posts: 987
Is democracy something we should count as a thing that really changed the world??? Or maybe we wouldnt ..... ????? ;)
"Idea becomes real" - Nordic Battle Groups motto
"A mans success isn't based on how high he can reach at the top ... only how high he bounces up when he have hit the bottom" - General G.S Patton
- thegeniusmartin
- location: Sweden
- joined: Aug 13, 2009
- posts: 987
Colorado said
What the hell is a "pommie" ?
Dunno?? LOL
"Idea becomes real" - Nordic Battle Groups motto
"A mans success isn't based on how high he can reach at the top ... only how high he bounces up when he have hit the bottom" - General G.S Patton
- thegeniusmartin
- location: Sweden
- joined: Aug 13, 2009
- posts: 987
