DISCUSSIONS
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Doctor_Nick said
grievous5226 said
Patton had balls which accounts for alot in war. Rommel wasn't scary but when Patton pissed in your rivers and tank rushed you knew to backoff lol.
Patton was an arrogant ass and if he had just kept his mouth shut he'd be remembered in a more favorable light. On the battlefield was an excellent field commander. Anything to do with politics or the press he shot himself in the foot.
if patton was a more co-operative commander, than he wouldn't be remembered as well. people remember him because he was an ass hole. if he was less of an ass hole than he would just be remembered as another allied commander. (remember the scene from patton when patton is talking to the british air marshal in africa and his command post got raided, funny as hell.)
- warman45
- location: Unknown
- joined: Aug 22, 2009
- posts: 288
What makes Patton or any other Allied (including Soviet) Generals "great" compared to the Germans?!? El Alamain and onward they all had owerwhelming superiority in numbers on the ground and in the air; it doesnt take much "greatness" to win under those conditions!
I totaly agree! All the Allied Generals from the end of 1941-1945 had much more troops, materials, ammunituon, fuel and air plains than the Axis.
I think that the German Generals had a great perspective of warfare, off course all allied hot shot Generlas had that to, and in troubled times ... they showed their greatness until the end of the war.
But Allied Generals like Wavvel (sry forgott how it was spelled) or the Russian General Chukov showed to that they knewed how to fight the Germans!
And Generals like Monty or Patton .... were great, I cant say against that, but they always had every thing they needed. They had never extrem low ammunition or fuel, and absolutly never in need for more troops!
"Idea becomes real" - Nordic Battle Groups motto
"A mans success isn't based on how high he can reach at the top ... only how high he bounces up when he have hit the bottom" - General G.S Patton
- thegeniusmartin
- location: Sweden
- joined: Aug 13, 2009
- posts: 993
Actually if you don't know, Rommel was unmatched by the British, Montgomery found a book of tank tactics, by Rommel himself and read it, then proceed to beat him. :)
- Mouzie
- location: Israel
- joined: Sep 01, 2009
- posts: 200
Hahahahaha, you got to be kidding me man!? Monty read a book ... and after that he could defeat Rommel!? Hahahahaha
Read som books you, learn some facts man. Monty had dubble as many troops, three times the air planes and tanks, 10 times the fuel and ammo, and over 200 times more artellery!
Monty was not a very good General, not bad .... but not good, and he were never as talanted or smart as Rommel!
And in Europe ... he acted crazy trhough the war, he were even kicked from the British Army directly after WW II .... hahahahaha damn youre funny man .... hahahahah! :D xD
"Idea becomes real" - Nordic Battle Groups motto
"A mans success isn't based on how high he can reach at the top ... only how high he bounces up when he have hit the bottom" - General G.S Patton
- thegeniusmartin
- location: Sweden
- joined: Aug 13, 2009
- posts: 993
Monty had 2 great virtues that stand him much above the most British commanders of that time:
- He greatly enforced the organization of his forces (organization that virtually didn't exist before his command).
- He was flexible and could make changes in his plans to compensate what was going bad in a battle.
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thegeniusmartin said
Hahahahaha, you got to be kidding me man!? Monty read a book ... and after that he could defeat Rommel!? Hahahahaha
Read som books you, learn some facts man. Monty had dubble as many troops, three times the air planes and tanks, 10 times the fuel and ammo, and over 200 times more artellery!
Monty was not a very good General, not bad .... but not good, and he were never as talanted or smart as Rommel!
And in Europe ... he acted crazy trhough the war, he were even kicked from the British Army directly after WW II .... hahahahaha damn youre funny man .... hahahahah! :D xD
It was in a history book, I read, oh, and if you even read, the Allies lost twice as much as the Germans, the Italians suffers the most in the Axis Power.
Rommel WON every single battles or it was a draw, till the near the end of the African campaign, where Mont and other commanders read a book of tank tactics by Rommel and won some major battles. Rommel was admire by the Allies, for his chivalry and utter will to defend his homeland NOT the cause of Hitler.
'Erwin Rommel wrote a book, Infantry Attacks, examining many battles he fought in during WWI and goes over what he learned from each battle. It was published in 1937 and became a must read for both German and Allies commanders during WWII. He taught his men to dig in whenever they paused for any length of time. This would pay off the many times French artillery fired upon his position, only to be shrugged off by the entrenchments built by Rommel's men.'
A famous quote of Patton [Outmaneuvering Rommel] Patton: [referring to Rommel's book, 'Infantry Attacks' or 'Infanterie greift an'] Rommel... you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
Patton: You know, Dick, if I had my way, I'd meet Rommel face to face; him in his tank and me in mine. We'd meet out there somewhere... salute each other, maybe drink a toast, then we'd button up and do battle. The winner would decide the outcome of the entire war.
- Mouzie
- location: Israel
- joined: Sep 01, 2009
- posts: 200
thegeniusmartin said
Hahahahaha, you got to be kidding me man!? Monty read a book ... and after that he could defeat Rommel!? Hahahahaha
Read som books you, learn some facts man. Monty had dubble as many troops, three times the air planes and tanks, 10 times the fuel and ammo, and over 200 times more artellery!
Monty was not a very good General, not bad .... but not good, and he were never as talanted or smart as Rommel!
And in Europe ... he acted crazy trhough the war, he were even kicked from the British Army directly after WW II .... hahahahaha damn youre funny man .... hahahahah! :D xD
Both commanders were good and both had negative as well as positive points when commanding.
Montgomery outsmarted Rommel at the battle of Alam el Halfa because Rommel had become predictable with his tactics by doing a pincer movement with a feint to the north and the main attack to the south and then encirclement. Montgomery managed to halt Rommel as he deliberately left a gap in the southern sector and used a tank screen on the Alam el Halfa bridge and destroyed enough of Rommel's tanks that the attack had to be called off. Montgomery also used fake documents, radio signals and trucks disguised as troops to confuse Rommel which worked to a degree especially at the second battle of El Alamein.
The trouble with Montgomery was he was too cautious prolonging the North African campaign when the Axis were retreating. He was also too confident of his abilities which led him to perceive things differently then what they were like Market Garden.
Rommel was great at utilising fully what he had at end, improvising and keeping the morale of the troops at high levels. He was also good at psychological warfare such as making it appear he had many more tanks then he had and preventing a battle when the British fled. His use of mobility and panzers was also extremely good. The spur of the moment decisions in some of the battles he made was awesome. He was brilliant at attack and defense but with the great distances travelled chasing the British greatly outstretched his supply routes when other generals would have waited. For long periods the Africa Corps was relying solely on enemy supplies (Montgomery was the complete opposite of Rommel when concerning supplies). In France Rommel went too far ahead and nearly got wiped out by a British counter attack (Battle of Arras) which was supported by Matilda tanks with which the dedicated anti tank guns of the German's (3.7 pak) couldn't knock out. Although he did brilliant to turn to battle to his favour by using 88's as anti tank guns and personally going to each 88 and stopping his men retreating. In France he was the main reason the Allies couldn't get out of their beach heads and if he had greater control over the tank divisions I believe he could have drove the Allies back into the sea. He treated war and battles as gentlemanly conducts and "fun" and never had ulterior motives beyond following orders.
Montgomery gets treated unfairly while Rommel gets lavished in praise with his flaws ignored.
With Allied troops having superior materials this wasn't overwhelming till the end of 1943. Rommel's books were of great interest to the British and Russians and later then Americans. But British tank tactics were of great interest to a certain Guderian who was the father of Blitzkrieg so both sides helped each other it seems lol.
I tore a path screaming through wind and blood, I will it all, burning deep, in my, skull
Woaw! Massive wall of text there! ;)
I actually agrees with you Ian. But only partly!
"Idea becomes real" - Nordic Battle Groups motto
"A mans success isn't based on how high he can reach at the top ... only how high he bounces up when he have hit the bottom" - General G.S Patton
- thegeniusmartin
- location: Sweden
- joined: Aug 13, 2009
- posts: 993
thegeniusmartin said
Woaw! Massive wall of text there! ;)
I actually agrees with you Ian. But only partly!
Aha. Everyone has their own opinion so it's alreyt :P
I tore a path screaming through wind and blood, I will it all, burning deep, in my, skull
Generally speaking, I study Montgomery and I find the similarities to General George B. McClellan downright scary. (And if you've studied the American Civil War, you know that being compared to McClellan is not a Good Thing.)
"Until you know what is worth dying for, Life isn't worth living."
"Choose wisely"
- CaptainPatch
- MHII, MH
- location: United States
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Such as?
Yes, I have a very good knowledge of who Mcellan was.
"Mors ultima linea rerum est mortalis."
- MajorLufbery
- MHII, MH GOLD
- location: France
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I read the memoires of Hans von Luck, one of Rommel's second in commands (among other things), called Panzer Commander. It is quite an interesting read; von Luck survived the war to become a Soviet prisoner and later Nato advisor; the book is not about the war as such but it has, understandably enough, center place.
One of the things that book impressed upon me was how decisive an advantage hacking the enigma machines gave the allies; as von Luck had the advantage of hindsight - he spoke with many of the selfsame commanders he fought against after the war and had a rather full picture of how things were, I believe, and he judged it a formiddable advantage in the north africa campaign, especially since at that time the enigma machines were considered 'foolproof' so even minor troop movements were sent over them. Of course, they got new codes every few months and their communications were safe until they were cracked, but it took weeks to crack, and months to replace. (And everything that HAD been sent could also be deciphered then.).
At any rate, Rommel struck me as extremely competent, admirable - both in the way he treated his soldiers and those of the enemies; he disregarded orders to kill all prisoners, for instance - and of course, he was executed under suspicion of planning to assassinate Hitler, never a bad thing in western eyes. On the battlefield he was both innovative, daring, and cunning; in a situation where the mediterranean was under British control, he could get hardly any supplies, which would have to be a logistical nightmare - he did far more with far less than any other commander I know of.
On the other hand, he was less present than many other commanders, with recurring health problems he got in Africa; and his innovation and daring could also be called recklessness; he made both friends and enemies easily in the Wehrmacht as well as political germany. His reaching the coast of France 10th of June was lauded by his commanding general, Hoth, but in the same sentence his suitability for command was questioned.
Which is to say, wether he was a great general or not, he certainly was an interesting one.
- Falaris
- location: Unknown
- joined: May 21, 2010
- posts: 124
Sure was! ;)
But a thing that he had, that almost no other German general had was honor and respect for his enemys and he treated them like a true gentleman.
"Idea becomes real" - Nordic Battle Groups motto
"A mans success isn't based on how high he can reach at the top ... only how high he bounces up when he have hit the bottom" - General G.S Patton
- thegeniusmartin
- location: Sweden
- joined: Aug 13, 2009
- posts: 993
An other very interesting general was von Kluge!
"Idea becomes real" - Nordic Battle Groups motto
"A mans success isn't based on how high he can reach at the top ... only how high he bounces up when he have hit the bottom" - General G.S Patton
- thegeniusmartin
- location: Sweden
- joined: Aug 13, 2009
- posts: 993
Who can tell me anything about Allied generals who fought in Burma?
"Idea becomes real" - Nordic Battle Groups motto
"A mans success isn't based on how high he can reach at the top ... only how high he bounces up when he have hit the bottom" - General G.S Patton
- thegeniusmartin
- location: Sweden
- joined: Aug 13, 2009
- posts: 993
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