DISCUSSIONS
Diart said
ian241289 said
Diart seemed strangely familiar to Nats who got banned for having a pirated version of the game
Yes I actually liked Nats' posts. He seemed a sensible bloke who could see things the way they are and I enjoyed reading what he had to say - entertaining I thought. Actually he was banned for being suspected of owning a pirate copy not for actually owning one. And well, to be honest, I cant really condemn piracy when developers such as Muzzy release bugged games - they are shooting themselves in the foot. Pirate games are so easy to get these days and no one will buy games that are online playable only so it really makes you wonder when the games industry is going to go. Maybe they should just release great games again like in the 80s/early 90s with proper printed manuals, maps, keyboard layouts and beautiful boxes and the like and people would start buying them again, rather than at the moment when you get a DVD case with quick manual (if you are lucky) a disk that doesn't play on install until 4 months later when you don't want to play the game anyway. And one that you cant sell either because of the protection activation. Stupid it is at the moment.
This makes me think you are Nat xD.
So piracy is allowed if a game has bugs? That means any game what has patches is allowed to be pirated. That's basically every computer game currently in existence. It's impossible to account for every single bug in a game. Only selling it to the public shows certain bugs. The reason games are more buggy today is peoples computer set ups have more options (as the possibilities for a set up is basically limitless) and customers are more demanding which causes rushed releases. This doesn't excuse buggy game releases btw but explains it. The difference with Muzzy Lane is that they are exceptional in improving and correcting the game. Hardly any other game company show this dedication in my opinion
As for games similar to 80's and 90's ones they would still get pirated. Pirating exists as people don't want to pay for games not because of what they get extra or how it looks. This applies to any game. Games similar to 80's and 90's ones will still get pirated. For the box art, manuals, maps etc these can all be shown in .jpgs and .pdf. If people want those things included with the game they can get them included with the pirated game. The only difference is a hard copy of them. This is easily fixed through printing anyway
On a final note product activation came about because of pirating not the other way round. You are complaining about product activation which came about from pirating which you don't condemn which is rather hypocritical
Rant over lmao xD
I tore a path screaming through wind and blood, I will it all, burning deep, in my, skull
People that are inclined to pirate software will ALWAYS find reasons/excuses to do so. It makes them feel less like the thieves that they are. Almost like terrorists reasoning: "THEY made me do this (socially unacceptable act)!"
"Until you know what is worth dying for, Life isn't worth living."
"Choose wisely"
- CaptainPatch
- MHII, MH
- location: United States
- joined: May 23, 2010
- posts: 1758
Well, as long as using torrents is legal, i.e. you torrent download a free file using a torrent software, I think it's actually quite usefull. Many games that have auto-updaters have started using P2P dowloading (Torrents, in other words) because it generally increases download speed.
And, the only times when I believe downloading a pirated game is (relatively) okay, is when you're trying to get a game, and it's incredibly old, and you can't buy it anywhere. However, I do think that downloading pirated releases such as (in example) Making History, then I think that's just, wrong i guess. Well, if it's a game that I really like, I'll buy it, to support the developers. But downloading pirated games can be usefull in the sense of "Try before you Buy", it's basically an extended demo of the game, and if you dont like it, then keep the pirated copy, if you do like it, support the devs and go out and buy it. Well, that's what I'd reccomend.. i guess.
ian241289 said So piracy is allowed if a game has bugs? That means any game what has patches is allowed to be pirated. That's basically every computer game currently in existence. It's impossible to account for every single bug in a game. Only selling it to the public shows certain bugs. The reason games are more buggy today is peoples computer set ups have more options (as the possibilities for a set up is basically limitless) and customers are more demanding which causes rushed releases. This doesn't excuse buggy game releases btw but explains it. The difference with Muzzy Lane is that they are exceptional in improving and correcting the game. Hardly any other game company show this dedication in my opinion
As for games similar to 80's and 90's ones they would still get pirated. Pirating exists as people don't want to pay for games not because of what they get extra or how it looks. This applies to any game. Games similar to 80's and 90's ones will still get pirated. For the box art, manuals, maps etc these can all be shown in .jpgs and .pdf. If people want those things included with the game they can get them included with the pirated game. The only difference is a hard copy of them. This is easily fixed through printing anyway
On a final note product activation came about because of pirating not the other way round. You are complaining about product activation which came about from pirating which you don't condemn which is rather hypocritical
Rant over lmao xD
Well I never pirated a game in my life and I got hit by online activation and online play on several games which has really made me think lately. Now I refuse to buy games with online play which has meant Ive had to leave a few games I wanted to play such as Silent Hunter 5 and Rise of Flight. So I am paying for how developers are treating piracy, but are the pirates wrong who are hitting back at ridiculous prices or the developers who are charging people so much to start with?
Can be possibly paralleled with the War on Terror - is it the USA that is the criminal or the terrorists? Who actually knows what prompted the terrorists to act against the USA in such a way? Its not the kind of thing you do lightly blow yourself up thats for sure.
There are always two sides to every conflict and we certainly dont know half of what goes on. And one thing is for sure the world and humankind has a natural way of balancing things out so who am I to go against the flow?
- Diart
- location: Unknown
- joined: Aug 13, 2010
- posts: 24
- Banned
Diart said
Well I never pirated a game in my life and I got hit by online activation and online play on several games which has really made me think lately. Now I refuse to buy games with online play which has meant Ive had to leave a few games I wanted to play such as Silent Hunter 5 and Rise of Flight. So I am paying for how developers are treating piracy, but are the pirates wrong who are hitting back at ridiculous prices or the developers who are charging people so much to start with?
1) This sounds like, " * _I_ * am not a criminal, so why do I need to be affected by police activities?" It's not like we all wear transponders that infallibly notify authorities "Thief! Over here! Come and get him!" What does a software pirate look like? What does a gamer that does NOT pirate software look like? Wow. Hard to tell one from the other. You get hassled by manufacturers' Security mechanisms? Blame it on the pirates that made the Security necessary.
Can be possibly paralleled with the War on Terror - is it the USA that is the criminal or the terrorists? Who actually knows what prompted the terrorists to act against the USA in such a way? Its not the kind of thing you do lightly blow yourself up that's for sure.
Well, you can't have a "War on Terror" if the Terror isn't already there to be warred against. Otherwise it would be like "War on Something That Doesn't Exist". Hard to sell that one to the taxpayers. [Hmm. Makes me think of "Music Man": Trouble ]
There are always two sides to every conflict and we certainly dont know half of what goes on. And one thing is for sure the world and humankind has a natural way of balancing things out so who am I to go against the flow?
Do you really think that manufacturers would have started putting in Security features if their products were NOT being pirated? Adding Security does increase the cost of production, and being greedy bastards (as the pirate advocates obviously view them), manufacturers wouldn't throw away money unless they saw a need to do so.
You think the games are too expensive, and so that gives pirates an excuse to do what they do? Well, I really wouldn't mind having a Ferrari, but those suckers are waaayyyyy out of my price range. Should I be able to steal one, just because I think the manufacturer is charging too much for what is essentially shaped metal, just like any other car? Should Ferrari stop installing Security devises -- and then jack up the price even more to cover installation -- just because a "few" get stolen?
If you think something costs too much, don't buy it. Just because "It's something that I really, really want!" is no excuse for stealing it and saying, "They made me do it!" as the pirates claim.
"Until you know what is worth dying for, Life isn't worth living."
"Choose wisely"
- CaptainPatch
- MHII, MH
- location: United States
- joined: May 23, 2010
- posts: 1758
I payed £20 UK for MH II upon release. I just bought 'Lets Dance' for the WII for the same price (for my friends little girl. Honestly. Oh god there goes my war gaming cred). To me MH II was cheap for a game of this complexity especially as it is aimed at a specialized market. I will back Muzzy to the hilt and thank them for daring to make this game rather than go for something far more commercial. We know it had launch problems but they have more tham made up for this (free MH Gold, second copy of MH II, listening to customer feedback and creating a hugely addictive game). There are very few strategy games released and if piracy impacts there sales there may well be one less in the future. Diart you can try justify it all you like but your aiming your vitriol at the wrong company. So thank you Muzzy, £20 is amazingly reasonable especially when compared to console titles.
I am not a game industry insider, but I am willing to assume that piracy is a serious problem, and of course that game companies can thus be forgiven when they try to deter fraud and theft.
An aside: on the other hand, Ubisoft crossed over the line, in my experience and opinion, when Silent Hunter wrecked my ability to use my optical drives for legitimate purposes, and after the grief and expense of fixing that, I have abandoned Silent Hunter and won't buy Settlers.
As for Muzzy Lane, I do not mind having bought a work-in-progress game from a company that issues patches. I do not know their balance sheet, but I'll assume that selling an unfinished game brings in the cash infusion that makes improvements possible. I think of it as an investment, or like a subscription, when we pay a magazine for issues that have not yet been written, printed, or mailed. I trust Harper's to send me issues that have not yet been created, and I trust Muzzy Lane to make available patches that have not yet been coded.
- Selfpropelled
- MHII
- location: Unknown
- joined: Aug 03, 2010
- posts: 32
For me, I actually take pride in buying games. And I only buy one game every few months or so, so its basically THE ONE for many a weeks to come.
But I also have to admit I downloaded games, pirated games, for whole other reasons: Broken CDs and/or unplayable CD-Copy-Protection. Broken: Dungeon Keeper. Unplayable without crack: the first Black&White.
Like Tacitus, I too always purchase genuine software, although I also resort to cracked versions in addition to my legitimate copy for the same reasons he lists - particularly so I can play without the CD in the drive. When I travel with my netbook I don't want (or have room for) an external optical drive. Downloadable games (like MHII) are the perfect solution. They don't get scratched, and don't require an optical drive. If we don't want PC games to become extinct - and if you compare the games on display in Electronics Boutique today compared to what it was 10 years ago you will see that is the direction we are heading - we really need to support companies like Muzzy Lane that produce quality games. If we use pirated software when we would otherwise have bought the product, there won't be anything left that's worth pirating in a few years time. In return, I'd like to see publishers show respect for their honest and loyal customers by employing anti-piracy measures that are customer-friendly. Muzzy Lanes does - I wish all publishers did.
This thread has gone quite off course and I believe the issue it initially brought up is still valid. I bought this game because of how impressed I was with MH 1. I admit I bought the game a week before release, while it was still in beta so I have reserved my judgement so far. However, I strongly believe the game was released as an unfinished product and unless there is an economic reason for this (ie the company was going bankrupt) it was a big mistake. This choice has made the game unattractive for the market at large and therefore has limited the target consumer to people who already knew about the game and appreciated it or were being referred to it by someone else.
When I received the beta I was quite literally shocked by the state of the game. In development terms that was an Alpha stage product, Beta stage should be reserved to testing intended for fine tuning of various gameplay features and clearing out any remaining bugs. Beta stage is not a period of development when you are adding parts of the game. When I played the beta the tech tree was just being (re)designed. However, since Muzzy Lane is a small developer such things are within reason.
Coming back to the topic of this thread, the graphics are indeed appalling. I've just tried the game again with the latest patch and see that there is no significant change since the beta version. First thing that strikes you is indeed as diart mentions that the textures look pixelated (best word I can find). The graphics all together seem unfinished and clearly inferior to those of the previous game, which is perhaps the most unbelievable part of this whole story. If I was to speculate, Muzzy Lane tried to give the game a new, hip, look and failed miserably, but by the time they realized this it was to late in the development process and they decided to go with it. If there was a way to play this game with the old graphics I would take that choice in an instant, the old graphics are simple, clear and give you all of the information you need. Those 3 things should be the core graphic principles in a game such as this.
I will be giving the game a thorough testing, discounting the graphic part. However I must admit it will be an uphill battle for the game to convince me of its quality and if the offer of a refund is indeed true I might just have to take that offer.
- Creosteanu
- MHII, MH GOLD
- location: United Kingdom
- joined: May 31, 2010
- posts: 45
Raises hand
I just want shadows please and possibly smoother sprites.
Africa is a shitstorm. Complete cluster fuck, rebellions everywhere. -SANAND
- Gmer_freak
- MHII, MH GOLD
- location: United States
- joined: Jun 14, 2010
- posts: 921
CaptainPatch said
Diart said
Can be possibly paralleled with the War on Terror - is it the USA that is the criminal or the terrorists? Who actually knows what prompted the terrorists to act against the USA in such a way? Its not the kind of thing you do lightly blow yourself up that's for sure.
Well, you can't have a "War on Terror" if the Terror isn't already there to be warred against. Otherwise it would be like "War on Something That Doesn't Exist". Hard to sell that one to the taxpayers. [Hmm. Makes me think of "Music Man": Trouble ]
I think what Diart is telling is that maybe the American international policy since the end of the WW2 had brought terror to them. It was the intervention of the Western powers in Middle East since the end of the WW1 that turned that place into a powder keg.
There are always two sides to every conflict and we certainly dont know half of what goes on. And one thing is for sure the world and humankind has a natural way of balancing things out so who am I to go against the flow?
Do you really think that manufacturers would have started putting in Security features if their products were NOT being pirated? Adding Security does increase the cost of production, and being greedy bastards (as the pirate advocates obviously view them), manufacturers wouldn't throw away money unless they saw a need to do so.
You think the games are too expensive, and so that gives pirates an excuse to do what they do? Well, I really wouldn't mind having a Ferrari, but those suckers are waaayyyyy out of my price range. Should I be able to steal one, just because I think the manufacturer is charging too much for what is essentially shaped metal, just like any other car? Should Ferrari stop installing Security devises -- and then jack up the price even more to cover installation -- just because a "few" get stolen?
If you think something costs too much, don't buy it. Just because "It's something that I really, really want!" is no excuse for stealing it and saying, "They made me do it!" as the pirates claim.
You destroyed his argument, Captain.
About the software/movie/music piracy, people do it because it's easy and most of the time, unpunished. These justifications the pirates give are hilarious.
If it was as ease to steal money from banks, they would do it as well. And, of course, they would elaborate excuses like "I'm just taking the money from people who explore the poor".
MODS: Deadlock: making-history.com/asset/1317 ; TCBTS: making-history.com/asset/384091 ; Zombie Apocalypse: making-history.com/asset/368403 ; Onslaught: making-history.com/asset/418213
TehBoss said
free MH Gold, second copy of MH II
Zomg! I completely forgot about this! Actually, I still need to give away my extra MHII key and the extra MHG download!
There's always me ; ] xD
Jokes :P
I tore a path screaming through wind and blood, I will it all, burning deep, in my, skull
TehBoss said
free MH Gold, second copy of MH II
Zomg! I completely forgot about this! Actually, I still need to give away my extra MHII key and the extra MHG download!
Great !!!
Send it to me, I got a friend who is interested in joining the community. I haven't quite convinced him yet of buying the game, tho ... :)
