DISCUSSIONS
- << previous
- 1
- next >>
What's wrong with this picture:
Pit = 40 MPUs x 20 weeks = 80 MPU-weeks = 5 of the resource
Mine = 20 MPUs x 40 weeks = 80 MPU-weeks = 10 of the resource
The two of them have the exact same amount of MPU-weeks to complete construction. But in the case of the Mine, using half of the manpower results in twice as much output.
I get the feeling that there is a physicist out there dying to know how that is accomplished.
"Until you know what is worth dying for, Life isn't worth living."
"Choose wisely"
- CaptainPatch
- MHII, MH
- location: United States
- joined: May 23, 2010
- posts: 1758
The mine represents an industrial mining operation, whilst the pit would represent the efforts of an uncivilized nation to gather resources. As mining operations are mechanized the work of an individual is worth more. I don't really understand what the issue with that is. I believe if you divide the output of a modern mine by the nr of workers it has you will notice that a worker today produces probably somewhere around 1000% more then a worker 100 years ago.
In other words the mine represents a technological improvement over the pit and I strongly suspect you will find that the mine requires a technology higher up the tree then the pit.
Best regards, Radu
- Creosteanu
- MHII, MH GOLD
- location: United Kingdom
- joined: May 31, 2010
- posts: 45
That extra coal you pay has got to go somewhere...
Africa is a shitstorm. Complete cluster fuck, rebellions everywhere. -SANAND
- Gmer_freak
- MHII, MH GOLD
- location: United States
- joined: Jun 14, 2010
- posts: 921
Actually, if you have the man power, you should definitely go for pits first and then upgrade gradually. not only can you build two pits in the same time as you can build a mine, the first pit will already have resulted in 100 resource-points by the time the first mine shows up, which then produces no more than the two pits per round, AND won't have produced as much totally over, say, 30 rounds.
Sure, on the long run you should just keep buildung and upgrading to get as much resources out of each MPU as possible. But for reflectivity, you should really start with pits first.
If you first build a pit, which uses up 40 MPU and then upgrade to a mine (20 MPU) are we then refunded 20 MPU ready to put to work somewhere else?
- roaldgiggles
- MHII
- location: Unknown
- joined: Jul 05, 2010
- posts: 40
Actually now you don't need to worry about pits or mines... 200 turns after playing v.1.0.18 and my stocks are going in millions... Looks like now it's enough just to conquer countries to make sure you won't run out your resources.
Blebla said
Actually now you don't need to worry about pits or mines... 200 turns after playing v.1.0.18 and my stocks are going in millions... Looks like now it's enough just to conquer countries to make sure you won't run out your resources.
In the millions? One hundred thousand of a resource would be crazy, but millions tell me the game has some serious flaws. Are you sure you have over one MILLION coal and other resources?
roaldgiggles said
If you first build a pit, which uses up 40 MPU and then upgrade to a mine (20 MPU) are we then refunded 20 MPU ready to put to work somewhere else?
Ideally, yes, I guess. But the truth of the matter is, anytime I went so far as to actually upgrade all the pits I build I wasn't able to distinguish between general MPU growth and those supposed refunds. Might be different with my Poland-game once I give back/liberate Germany. My MPU will drop like a stone I guess, with all the armies I am entertaining.
Snapjaw- playing as Poland and after conquering all easter, central and south Europe my stocks are: arms- 150k, steel- 5,6M(yes- million), coal- 4,2M, food- 3,1M, and my budget after producing appliances all teh time is 120M $. So I am not upgrading any mines, farms or anything like that- just military infrastructure... Easy pissy ;)...
Since this is not the only thread discussing resource surplus I'd take an educated guess and say: it has to be more balanced.
In MHI and Gold, e.g., you always had to watch your food supply. You couldn't just overdevelop everything because this drove down your food production while simultaneously driving up your food consumption. Too much army, and you had no field workers left - I guess that was the logic. It wasn't that hard with oil and the rest, but generally speaking you always had to carefully balance between your various parts of your countries resource needs.
As a solution to this problem, I want to warn the developers from simply driving up resource-cost with buildings and stuff, or driving down resource production. When you look at the minor countries, without buying supplies, you get a very balanced play within your own nation as long as you at least have SOME kind of resource production. the very smallest states, of course, are a different thing all together.
After thinking about this problem for quite a bit it dawned me that the problems lies with the new budget system. To put it simply first: Money is too cheap, it is too easy to be in debt. The equation of this is as follows:
- in the beginning of the game, resources are somewhat scarcely distributed around the world. Most spots are undeveloped and it costs quite a lot to develop them. So right away, everyone starts developing their resource spots while simultaneously going into debt. As long as this is happening, no one is able to produce much more than goods as there are not enough resources to do much more.
- after twenty rounds, plus some for stockpiling (to fund further development) the market changes instantly. the new resources can be put into work/appliances-production instantly.
- another 20 to 40 rounds the market for resources rebounds completely. From now on all states us much less resources than they regularly produce. the credit they had taken for development is now completely offset. The planet produces a huge surplus, primarily in the bigger states: in states like Poland, looking at them on their own, you are nowhere near a huge surplus. But bigger countries like the British, China, Russia and the U.S. have many small-city areas that produce huge masses of resources.
Where solutions possibly lie:
-
continuous production cost instead of one-time cost: right now, only the production of the higher money-making-goods cost the player continuously. compared to that, the production of factories buildings and armies is very, very cheap. A continuous system is also easier to balance later on.
-
another possible solution: higher maintenance costs for everything. armies must cost resources, not just money, even if they don't fight. they must cost even more when fighting. transportation most cost more than just money.
-
in any case, going into debt has to be more painful. That was the case before, when the debt drove down IPU-effectivity. This alone made taking a credit much more painful and slowed down development considerably. Thus the production of resources somewhat matched the growing demand for them.
What do you guys think?
- << previous
- 1
- next >>
