FDR said
CaptainPatch said
But then, I can just as easily see that from an Oriental perspective, because of all the violence that occurred, the Civil Rights Movement was just as much of a Bad Thing.
So, the Cultural Revolution, Mao's quest to get rid of shit he didn't like, was as good (Or bad) as the Civil Rights movement, the fight to gain equal rights for African Americans? Do you even realize how little sense your making right now?
Mao sure kept the gene pool close with that Culture Revolution. Continue those who are serious while I sit here reading. :D
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agga said
- the great leap forward, 1958-1961 was a BAD THING. ~30,000,000 dead peasants due to starvation, because of really, really bad ideas forced on the populace by the communist government. they (the CPC) didn't mean to do it, but they still did it. nothing good came of it.[/quote]
You have to once again take the entire context of famine in China. [Scroll down to "Famine in Asia, China] Millions of Chinese died from famine-induced starvation every other decade, going all the way back to 108 B.C. (1,828 instances of famines between then and 1911.) It's not necessarily something where you can point at any person or group and definitively declare, "It's ALL their fault!" More importantly, the Chinese people themselves didn't demonstrate such an assertion of blame by sparking off even one minor rebellion.
- the cultural revolution was basically a political civil war, with Mao trying to destroy his more sensible enemies. millions died of torture and violence, tens of millions more had their lives ruined because their education or careers were ended when they were sent to labor in the fields, or rot in prison, for the decade where they could have been studying medicine, or science, or running businesses, or writing books, or anything else that was perceived as "counter-revolutionary". nothing good came of it.
Can you name even one political upheaval -- especially any that came with any version of a civil war -- which were NOT accompanied by death and/or torture of political opponents and combatants? Ultimately, EVERY government imprisons, tortures, and/or executes its political opposition. Even the US. (Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, renditions; going back in history, both sides during the American Civil War; even further back, what happened to the Tories in the new US at the end of the AWI.) Some nations have done it to a LARGE extent: Germany to the Jews and other minorities, Turkey to the Armenians, the US in regards to Negroes through most of its history, Spain to the Indians of the Western Hemisphere, the US to Native Americans, etc. Rationales are made as to why these things occurred: "Common for that era;" "It needed to be done;" etc. Is one nation any less culpable because, "They killed millions; we only killed (hundreds) of thousands"?
the US civil right movement was a struggle, but good came out of it, the US progressed because of it. if it weren't for Mao (and Co.)'s big social programs in the 50's and 60's, China would be 20 years ahead of where it is today.
And the pick-nation-of-your-choice would be XX years ahead had it NOT gotten caught up with some-program-or-another . It's called "20/20 hindsight". Invariably, political leaders start actions that they believe are necessary at a given moment, hoping for a favorable outcome. That includes Roosevelt, Kennedy, Churchill, right along with Hitler, Stalin, and Mao. The "what" that is done varies wildly leader to leader, depending on their own backgrounds and viewpoints. But generally the phrase, "It seemed like a Good Idea at the time" usually applies.
A VERY significant element that applies is the overall view on Life between Occidentals and Orientals. The expression, "One death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic" very much applies. Asia is practically the birthplace of "Life is cheap." This one factor probably more so than any other probably accounts for why the PRC was not plagued by rebellion after rebellion, civil war after civil war. The very thing that is most pointed at as being THE most horrendous aspect of Communism -- "They killed MILLIONS of their own people through incompetence, neglect, or evil intent!" -- is/was perceived as "Business as usual" for China, dating back to before there were Communists.
"Until you know what is worth dying for, Life isn't worth living."
"Choose wisely"
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FDR said
CaptainPatch said
But then, I can just as easily see that from an Oriental perspective, because of all the violence that occurred, the Civil Rights Movement was just as much of a Bad Thing.
So, the Cultural Revolution, Mao's quest to get rid of shit he didn't like, was as good (Or bad) as the Civil Rights movement, the fight to gain equal rights for African Americans? Do you even realize how little sense your making right now?
I didn't say that I_ believe that was the case. Rather that I can _perceive "see" that Orientals from China WILL tend to look at the US during the Civil Rights turmoil much like we looked at the Chinese turmoil during the Cultural Revolution. To the Chinese, they were wrestling with securing the rights of "the proletariat" working masses, while in the US an entire race of people that had been oppressed simply because of the color of their skin. And in both cases, those that had been doing the oppressing fought back. (And keep in mind that at the time China's population in 1965 was more than three times that of the US -- 715 million + to 194 million +.)
"Until you know what is worth dying for, Life isn't worth living."
"Choose wisely"
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CaptainPatch said
But generally the phrase, "It seemed like a Good Idea at the time" usually applies.
Even though it justifies nothing.
DEMONS
The answer to "Was it justified?" is ALWAYS 20/20 hindsight. And when you read about the event(s) it's important to note who paid to have the texts printed.
"Until you know what is worth dying for, Life isn't worth living."
"Choose wisely"
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